This homework assignment will span the next two days.
Tonight, October 19th, you will need to read the short story by Kate Chopin entitled, "A Respectable Woman."
Post your answers to the following questions on this blog as a comment. You must have all 5 questions answered by TONIGHT, October 19th, by midnight.
Then, respond to at least one other person by Wednesday night, October 20th, at midnight.
Respond to the following questions:
1. Based on the quote, "Her mind only vaguely grasped what he was saying. Her physical being was for the moment predominant. She was not thinking of his words, only drinking in the tones of his voice. She wanted to reach out her hand in the darkness and touch him with the sensitive tips of her fingers upon the face or the lips. She wanted to draw close to him and whisper against his cheek--she did not care what--as she might have done if she had not been a respectable woman."
During Chopin's time, why do you think this description would not be accepted? What does she mean by "respectable woman?"
2. Why do you think Mrs. Baroda wanted to tell her husband about her feelings? And, why do you think she decided not to be honest with him in the end?
3. At the proposal of Gouvernail's return, why does Mrs. Baroda whole-heartedly reject his return? Then, why does she change her mind about having him back?
4. Read the final sentences of the short story. Do these closing lines reveal anything about her future intentions?
5. If Chopin was shunned for her explicit writing, what about this story may have been perceived as explicit? Do you agree? Where do you see the theme of "man and woman are equal" throughout the story?
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During Chopin’s time, this detail would probably have been considered very explicit, and thus not accepted. This is explained by her thought that “she might have done if she had not been a respectable woman,” proving that, at least at the time, women deemed “respectable” by society only if they suppressed their emotions. Yet at the same time, I felt that she wanted to tell her husband about her feelings because she was respectable, or at least honest. But in the end she realized that “she knew there are some battles in life which a human being must fight alone.” I take this to mean that if she had told Gaston, he might have confronted her, but more than likely he would have forgiven her almost on the spot or even consoled her (judging by his other reactions), thus allowing her emotions to win the battle over her self-control. She might also have not told him to be defiant, but I’m not sure because even she admits she is confused about her feelings.
ReplyDeleteThen at the proposal of Gouvernail’s return, Mrs. Baroda whole-heartedly rejects this and then changes her mind because she is conflicted about her feelings for Gouvernail, torn between indulging these feelings or leaving well enough alone. As for the final sentences, I definitely see some mischief brewing behind her innocent enough proposal. Mrs. Baroda’s impulse to touch Gouvernail’s face was probably the most explicit part, due to its detail. I think nowadays that kind of detail is acceptable because society has really dropped the bar for what is “kosher” for the masses to read, view, watch, etc. While this more relaxed standard is not necessarily good, perhaps Chopin’s culture was too restricting…there should be a medium. Chopin was trying to demonstrate this through her writing, and that “man and woman are equal,” by showing that women have just as strong impulses as men do.
1. This probably wouldn't be accepted because being unfaithful to one's husband was unheard of. At that time, the desire to touch him would have been unthinkable. When she claims to be a "respectable woman" it means that she would never think to be unfaithful.
ReplyDelete2. Mrs. Baroda, as a respectable woman, would have wanted to be completely honest with her husband. After all, she wouldn't want to be betrayed in such a way. In the end she didn't bring it up, seemingly not to burden him. However, it is indicated, at the end of the story, that she would have liked to give in to temptation.
3. Mrs. Baroda didn't want to be tempted by his the man agaon. She must have changed her mind though because her statement at the end of the story "I shall be very nice to him" insinuates marital unfaithfulness.
4. Yes, the end of the story indicate that she intends to give in to that temptation she felt the last time her husband's friend visited.
5. This story could be considered explicit, for that time period, because of the fact that the sleep together in the middle of the story, she is tempted to cheat on her husband, and in the end intends to do so. In my opinion this story is nowhere close to explicit, it's mild. However, that is probably because in this day and age I have been exposed to things much more explicit.
In response to Liz:
ReplyDelete1) I didn't think of the "unfaithful" part. The only things I've heard about Chopin's female roles are that they can be defiant to their husbands.
3 and 5) Nice way of putting it.
1.During this time period the men where to be drawn to the women, not he other way around, also the women where to be devoted to there husbands and it would be seen as absurd to having feelings as such towards another man. What she said was very blunt and can be seen as a very sensual feeling. That can easily be seen as not "respectable woman" because women were not to be seen talking as such and being so explicit toward another man when already married. She was not trying to be so explicit, but she even states that sometimes women’s feelings get a hold of them and you cant control what is going on thus being not respectable.
ReplyDelete2. Mrs. Baroda decided not to tell her husband because she admits he would be upset with her and during that time a women would be almost disowned for it. She also admitted that she was very confused about her feelings so why admit them if she wasn’t sure what was really going on; that’s why when she came back she was okay with having him come again because she was no longer confused. I think she decided to be honest with him in the end because she knew her true feelings and that it was only his apostrophe that turned her on.
3. Once again, she didn’t want him to come back because she knew that she should not have feelings as she did towards him again, but is very acceptable towards it in the end because she realizes her actual feelings and that she didn’t care for him, but it was rather the way he spoke. She was no longer confused and I think that by being confused it drew her into him on a sensual level.
4. I think it reveals that instead of “wanting him” she will now listen to him and he’s apostrophes and take them serious because her confusion made her like him more and more making him more mysterious, but she has him figured out now.
5. This is very explicit, I totally agree. It was very blunt and straight with her feelings and usually that was men’s job. I think the whole story proves that men and women are equal because men were the ones to talk like that, but in her case she was not afraid to speak her mind and she did. She didn’t let the time period affect what she had to say.
in response to liz:
ReplyDeletei don't think that she was "unfaithful" to her husband. I think that everyone has a second to find them selves checking out another guy or something even though it may not be right i find my self doing it even if i was in a realtionship. I think she caught her self that thought about it for awahile and laughes it off when telling her husband.And i totally agree with 5 i want to change mine now lol but i wont just to see what people have to say=]]
Response to Alie:
ReplyDeleteYou write a lot and im kinda confussed! haha,but i do agree with what you said, if i understood correctly in you saying that she was mischievous towards the end and wanting him to come back over. I want this story to be continued even though it was puzzling to read through.
1. During Chopin's time, the detials Mrs. Baroda used would be considered very explicit. I was surprised myself when reading the description. This sort of emotion would not be viewed as acceptable in anyone's eyes. Mrs. Baroda wants to be seen as a respectable woman and would not want to follow through with what she was feeling. If she did, she would be falling short of being respectable.
ReplyDelete2. Mrs. Baroda was tempted to tell her husband what happened and how she was feeling but decided not to. "But she did not yield to the temptation. Beside being a respectable woman she was a very sensible one; and she knew there are some battles in life which a human being must fight alone". Mrs. Baroda did not feel it necessary to involve her husband in what occured with Gouvernail.
3. Mrs. Baroda rejects Gouvernails return at first because I believe that she did not want to see him after just having an explicit feeling for him. "She did not return till Gouvernail was gone from under the roof". I don't think she wanted it to look as if she liked him or had any sort of feeling for him. She then all of a sudden had a revelation that she didn't have a problem seeing him again. There must have been some reason for wanting to be in his company once again.
4. Her sudden enthusiasm at the end of the story is a bit odd. She must have had some sort of intention to want to see him that bad. Gouvernail must have had an affect on her to make her change her mind to suddenly want to be nice to him. The temptation must be coming back to her.
5. "She wanted to reach out her hand in the darkness and touch him with the sensitive tips of her fingers upon the face or the lips. She wanted to draw close to him and whisper against his cheek..." That statement to me was the most explicit in the story. Especially during that time period the way Mrs. Baroda explained her feelings was pretty deep.
In response to Liz:
ReplyDeleteI agreee with what Allie said about your response. I did not think of the unfaithful aspect of this either. I was not focusing on the fact that being unfaithful in one's marriage would definitely be unheard of during that time. The whole idea of being a respectable woman, I'm sure has to do with being honest and faithful. I'm glad you brought that up Liz!
1.I think this description would not be acceptable in her time, because in her time, the woman was entirely faithful to her husband, she respected him and submitted herself to him. Women in that time would never even think of cheating, they would be severely punished in such a circumstance, but Chopin is bringing out the true feelings of a woman of her time, feelings and thoughts that were never allowed to be shown by women. Because Chopin displayed those hidden feelings women had, her stories were rejected because women were not allowed to feel or think that way. She wanted to show herself as a "respectable woman", because she didn't want others to see that other side of a woman, and judge her for having thoughts other than what was acceptable in thier society.
ReplyDelete2.I think she wanted to tell him her feelings to show him that she didn't really dislike Gouvernail as she made it seem, to show that she was fine with him their. She probably didn't tell him again because women weren't allowed to think and feel that way, and she would have been seen as unfaithful and a "bad wife".
3. She didn't want to have the feelings she had for him again, because she didn't want anyone to know and then her be seen as unfaithful. She knew she would be tempted by him again, and want to be unfaithful.
4. I think these lines reveal that nexttime she see's him, she will be very tempted to have him, and cheat on her husband. She will be more tempted, and feel more freedom to be unfaithful.
5. I think her thoughts and feelings about possibly having feelings for another man, and possibly being unfaithful could be seen as explicit since a woman was only to love one man, and fully submit herself to that man, thinking of no one else. The society Chopin was living in was very restrictive, and so many things we would never give a second thought to these days were often viewed explicitly. I do not think what she writes is very explicit at all, because no a days, we see and are around much more explicit things, and i think as the times pass, the bar drops lower and lower, making things we would think as explicit not even anything to the next generation of people, just as now we don't see what she writes as explicit at all, but in her time we unspeakable. I think the fact that a woman is thinking and having the same feelings as men do shows that women are equal to men in the fact that they also have some sexual impulses, and they are not just some rock that has no fellings, that they think of things just as men do, just that they are not allowed to express it as freely.
In response to Audrey question 1:
ReplyDeleteI think that in these days it wouldn't really be seen as explicit, because we are often exposed to things way worse, and mosr explicit that this kind of description, and never think twice about it. In many books these days, there is much more description of sexuality and infidelity than this, and it just seems natural now, because we are so used to it.
In response to Destiney question 5:
She didn't actually tell her feelings to anyone, she was still with the time period, and she still submitted herself to her husband as most woman were meant to do. It was just that she was able to write about her feelings and the feelings of most women, which were never able to display their feelings.
1. I think that when Mrs. Baroda was thinking that particular thought about stroking her husband's friend, if someone would have known about it, she would have been frowned upon for thinking such thoughts. When she says she's a "respectable woman," she means that she is better than to do such a thing to a friend of her husband. Being "respectable," she has a moral decency that those who are not "respectable" would not have.
ReplyDelete2. Mrs. Baroda probably wanted to tell her husband her feelings, because she felt guilty for thinking such thought about his friend. In the end, the reason she more than likely didn't tell her husband of her thoughts was because she was "a respectable woman," and she didn't want to cause any conflict.
3. When Gaston suggests that his friend returns, Mrs. Baroda was completely against it at first, probably because she did not want to have those thoughts and feelings about him again. Maybe she changed her mind about not wanting Gouvernail to come back, because she realized that thoughts were harmless and quite fun. She wants the freedom to think whatever she wants.
4. When Mrs. Baroda says in the last sentence, "This time I shall be very nice to him," she may have intentions of flirting around with Gouvernail, without thinking through the consequences. She may feel that since nothing happened the last time when she thought such thoughts, it will be completely harmless to think them again and maybe even go more extreme.
5. In paragraph two, it says, "...and undisturbed tete-a-tete with her husband..." That may be perceived as explicit. Also, in the middle of the second page it says, "They were making a bit of toilet sociably together in Mrs. Baroda's dressing-room." That is also more than likely perceived as explicit. I feel that those two particular situations are explicit for that time period, but nowadays one can see that things are way more explicit than that. Throughout the story, the theme of "man and woman are equal" is seen in Mr. and Mrs. Baroda's argument seen on the second page. They are both arguing about how they feel about Gourvenail, sharing their opinions with each other in hopes that circumstances may change. Mrs. Baroda probabaly feels that her husband should respect her feelings, and not try and overpower them.
1.) Kate Choplin's short story, "A respectable Woman" would be not be accpetable at the time of her writing. Woman were supposed to be submissive to their husbands. Also, a more important factor would actually be that woman were not looked at as sexual beings. Woman, unlike men, were not allowed to express the fact that they did have desires and sexual thoughts. The character in this situation, Mrs. Baroda, was married and was lusting after her husbands good friend would only make the short story even more unaccaptable. Kate Choplin reffers to the term "respectable woman" and even titles her story after this? The woman in her story is placed in a difficult situation, but decides to ultimately walk away. A respectable woman would not lust after any other man besides her husband, and definently not act upon it. In fact, that is what she decides to do, is be a "respectable woman."
ReplyDelete2.)I am still puzzled to why Mrs. Baroda wanted to tell her husband what she had felt that night. I would normally think that she would wish to keep this a secret from him because she may have expierenced guilt, confusion, or out of fear to how her husband would potentially react. I believe that once Gouvernail returned, she wanted and would act on her lust. The ending line of the story goes as follows, "This time I shall be very nice to him." This one line leaves the reader confused with different ideas floating in the air.
3.)She first refuses his return to stay with them because she remembers a night that could have potentially turned out very wrong, and she does not want to be that tempted again. After further thought however, she wishes she were in that situation again because this time she would handle it differently. Instead of leaving, her curiousity would get the most of her.
4.) The last paragraph seems to be somewhat contradicting to itself. She says that she has overcome everything, implying that the temptation has left her and she now would know how to handle the trying situation. However, then she says that she will be very nice to him. Implying something sexual to most readers.
5.)I don't really think that this short story is explicit. Although, no married person should be thinking thoughts like this, the reality is that the feelings that she expierenced that night could possibly be realatable to many others. I do not agree with being unfaithful or lusting after another, but I do reconize that it is apart of everyday life. I do not think that Choplin is writing about anything out of the ordinary.
1)During Chopin's time, this description would not be accepted for two main reasons: the explicit content and the promiscuous behavior it suggests. Back when Chopin was alive, women dressed far more modestly than they do now, and that basically shows one of the high standards for women. They wre expected to dress modest, sunmit to their husbands, and stay in the house and attend the duties there. The description Chopin gives in that quote about what she wanted to do with Gouvernail was frowned uopn by societ because it included far too intimate details (that would be equivalent of a rated- R movie for her time period)and it suggested infedelity and disloyalty towards her husband. When Chopin uses the phrase "respectable woman", she means a woman that was acceptable to her society. This type of woman was (as i mentioned earlier) one who dressed, thought, and acted modestly and purely, stayed at home and did the steerotypical jobs of a housewife, and completely submitted to her husband (which includes obeying him and staying loyal to him at all times)
ReplyDelete2)I think she wanted to tell her husband about her feelings os that she could "come clean" about the whole situation, similar to how many religions involve confessing sins and asking for forgiveness. She wanted to get it worked out, and possibly alert her husband so that he could help prevent anything happening betweenher and Gouvernail in the future. I think she decided to not be honest with him in the end because she didn't want to worry him about her loyalty, get punished for her behavior, and because she considered it a battle she had to fight on her own. The txt says..."She knew there are some battles in life which a human being must fight alone.
3)At the proposal of Gouvernail's return, Mrs. Baroda whole-heartedly rejecst his return because she doesn't wish to think more unacceptable thoughts about the two of them and. Basically, she wants to remove the temptation out of her life. She changes her mind about having him back because she realizes that she wants to deal with the temptation and show that she can handle it.
4)The only thing i possibly inferred from the last lines of the story is that Chopin may be suggesting that she has "overcome" the standards and guidelines for women that society had set. Perhaps she wants to ignore these rules and thinks/know that she can get away with pursuing the thoughts she had towards Gouvernail.
5)The part that could be percieved as explicit would probably be the qote discussed in question one, where she descibes her physical desires being predominant over all else. I don't agree that this is explicit for today's time period, but for her's it certainly was. I see the thme of "man and woman equal" where Agston greatly wants his friend to return and visit them again, but Mrs. Baroda strongly disagrees at first. The husband didn't ignore her stance upon the matter and invite Gouvernail anyways. Instead, he respected his wife's feelings and stance and, treating her as an equal,waited until she changed her mind and was comfortable with the college friend's return.
1. During that time the "Respectable Woman" would not be having feelings for other men. It isn't very unusual for a woman to think like she did towards other men. Woman back then were supposed to be submissive to their husbands and not have a affair.
ReplyDelete2. There are many possible reasons that Mrs. Baroda might have wanted to tell her husband about her feelings toward Mr. Gouvernail. The first is that she wanted her husband to know that she didn't hate him but actually likes him. Another reason is that her husband might be too possesive over her and wouldn't invite him over again.
3. She wouldn't want him to come back to the plantation because she felt like she couldnt handle her temptations. At the end she feels like she can control her feelings and urges towards him.
4. Yes, the last sentence sounds like she will have a little fun when he returns. It can be implied that when he comes back that she will be "very" nice to him by showing her feelings toward him.
5. The last paragraph is very explicit in that males and females have the same feelings. Because males and females have the same feelings, they should be treated the same.
1. This would never be allowed for a woman to say this let alone have it published. Women were to be submissive to their husbands and do what he wanted. Women were never allowed to want to touch another man. A respectable woman was one that was a perfect housewife that always did as she was told.
ReplyDelete2. She wanted to tell her husband because they were like best friends and she wanted to be honest and not keep it a secret. She decided not to tell him because she wanted to fight the battle or urge by herself. She thought it was the best route to take.
3. She wasn’t ready to face temptation again but then she finds the will power to embrace his visit. She said she had overcome everything and that she would be nice to him. This implies that she may give into her temptations.
4. She said she had overcome everything and that she would be nice to him. This implies that she may give into her temptations.
5. What is perceived as explicit is the truthfulness of Mrs. Baroda’s temptations and feelings for a man that was not her husband. I think it is somewhat explicit for the time period. It is up for interpretation what Mrs. Baroda plans to do when Gouvernail visits again. Equality is most evident through Gouvernail’s planned visits at the end. Gaston yielded his desire for Gouvernail to visit because of his wife’s opposition to it. They made the decision together. He also listened when she did want Gouvernail to visit.
Tina Gallmeyer
1. I don’t believe that during Kate Chpoin’s time, that this would be acceptable. The quote is referring to Mrs. Baroda lusting over Gouvernail, which would probably escalate into her cheating on Gaston. During Chopin’s time, adultery was a lot more serious than it is now, and was frowned upon. When Chopin writes “respectable woman” she is talking about how Mrs. Baroda was dignified and didn’t give into her lustful thinking.
ReplyDelete2. I think Mrs. Baroda wanted to tell Gaston her feelings, because she wanted help in dealing with her lust, but if she told Gaston, there was a possibility of him not understanding and in turn becoming upset with her. I think Mrs. Baroda hid her feelings from Gaston, because she knew Gaston wouldn’t understand her situation, and didn’t want to upset him.
3. I think that Mrs. Baroda rejected Gouvernail’s return, because she didn’t want to deal with the temptation she felt for him a second time. I then think that she changed her mind, because she was so drawn to him that she wanted to see him again.
4. I think that Mrs. Baroda wants to act on the temptation that she felt for Gouvernail. “‘Oh,’ she told him, laughingly, after pressing a long, tender kiss upon his lips, ‘I have overcome everything! you will see. This time I shall be very nice to him.’ “(Chopin). When Mrs. Baroda says that last underlined statement, I think she is planning on doing something with Gouvernail.
5. I feel like Mrs. Baroda isn’t a very “respectable woman”, in fact, I feel more like she’s the opposite of that. It seems explicit that she probably wants to cheat on Gaston with a guy that she just met. I agree that for Chopin’s time, this was explicit, but today, that’s nothing compared to our explicit.
1. This description would not have been accepted during Chopin’s time because, women during that time were supposed to be very conservative, and weren’t supposed to do things like wanting “to reach out her hand in the darkness and touch him with the sensitive tips of her finger on the face or the lips.” Even if they wanted to, they were not supposed to express it to anyone, especially not in a story. Things like that were supposed to be kept to themselves. By “respectable woman” she means that she is not someone who would cheat on her husband, or do things randomly with men that she does not know very well.
ReplyDelete2. She probably wanted to tell her husband about her feelings, because she is a “respectable woman”, and wants to be honest with him. She didn’t really want to keep anything from him, but knew it would cause problems, so she decided to keep quiet about it, and not be honest with him.
3. Mrs. Baroda rejects his return because she doesn’t want to be tempted again by him, and doesn’t want to have those previous feelings for him return. However she changes her mind, because she probably realizes that she really does like him, and wants to see him again. “This time I will be very nice to him.” This statement definitely shows that she still has some feelings for him and wants to be near him again.
4. Yes, they could mean a couple of things. One that she wants to see him again to prove to herself that she doesn’t like him, and that she can control herself around him. Or it could mean that she has regrets about not doing anything with him last time, and wants to see him again to express her feelings to him.
5. The fact that she wrote very openly about feelings and desires, could have been considered explicit, especially since it was coming from a woman in this time period. In their time, yes it would have been explicit, but in today’s world, it is basically nothing. This kind of thing happens a lot.
1. At this time, it would be considered an abominable act to betray one's husband and act out like she was thinking to. To even touch him would have been an unheard of action and regarded as unfaithful and unthinkable. To call herself a "respectable woman" means that she is taking note of this and realizing the that the her rash thinking was not good and might harm her.
ReplyDelete2. She would have wanted to tell him because he was not olny her husband but her best friend and she did not want to keep something so important from him. However, in the end she keeps it to herself knowing that there is no need to burden and upset him with the information.
3. Upon hearing that he might be returning in the future, she convinces her husband not to let him come that therefore not allow her to be tempted by his presence again. At the end of the story when she tells her husband that it would be okay if his friend returned it sparks the idea that she is actually considering unfaithfulness and giving into that temptaion.
4. I believe that she is going to act impulsively and allow herself to be unfaithful to her husband.
5. The mere insinuation of unfaithfulness would have been shunned in her time. Women were supposed to love their husbands alone and not stray from them. Throughout the stroy men and wonem are found equal in their desires and at the end specifically when it tells of her plans of unfaithfulness.
In response to Adam:
ReplyDeleteI like that in #2 that you bring up the idea that she doesn't tell her husband not only for his own good of not knowing, but also for her own ends. Had she told him, he might not invite his friend back which is what she wants, so instead of telling she keeps this secret to herself. She is using it for her advantage.
1.During this time period, any description like this was very explicit. If it was describing a husband and wife's relationshi, the details would have been explicit. Any description of sexuality was looked down upon. However this description was a promotion of a woman's promiscuity, and this only made the descrition worse. Furthermore when Chopin calls her a respactable woman, at the time it would be like calling Amy whinehouse a respectable woman.
ReplyDelete2.She wanted to tell her husband because she was a "respectable woman". Also admitting to having feelings for someoeone else couldn't possibly csuse anything but bad feelings between the two. Deciding not to tell her husband only furthers the claim that she is not respectable. She could be viewed as respectable if in the last line she didn't imply that she was going to act on her feelings for Gouvernail later on. She probably didn't tell him because as she hints at later, she was going to be "very nice to him", and didn't want to ruin her fun times with him in the future.
3.She rejected it because she didn't want to be tempted by him anymore. She probably changed her mind because she wanted to explore her feelings and not be tied down.
4.It either means she's going to have an affair, or she's going to bake Gouvernail cookies and read him bedtime stories, but come on we all know what she means.
5.The way she describes thoughts of infidelity from a woman was very explicit. Any free thinking from a woman was also explicit. I don't belive that Chopin was promoting infidelity,I think that it is just a story of true human emotions and I wouldn't ban it. Male and female equality is shown when Mrs. Baroda's husband cared so much about what she thought, and respected her as an equal partner in the relationship.
1. During Chopin's time such a description would be absurd because for a wife to have even a small attraction for another man other than her husband noticed would have been looked upon with shame. Wives her expected to be absolutely and completely faithful to their husbands, and to have desires for another man would be breaking this commitment. By a "Respectable Woman" Chopin meant that Mrs. Baroda had the self-control to resist the desire she felt for Gourvernail and stay completely faithful to her husband, she realized that such an act as touching Gourvernail may cause a scene that would not be needed.
ReplyDelete2. Mrs. Baroda felt like she would be doing the right thing by being honest with her husband about her feelings so that he understood why she dislike Gourvenail's presence. She wanted to make sure her husband felt her complete devotion she has for him in resisting her temptations. She ended up keeping this bit of information from her husband as she thought it may save him some drama that wasn't necessary. It may have caused jealousy and/or a loss of trust from her husband.
3. She rejects this proposal as she does not want to have to go through the temptation of her desire for Gourvernail. She changes her mind either because she believes that if he does visit again she is strong enough to resist him, or she wants him back so that she can feel her attraction for him again and possibly act on that attraction.
4. These lines reveal a future intention to act upon her desires and to engage in an affair with Gourvernail.
5. The story may have been considered explicit for its suggestions and hints of a possible affair that could have happened between Mrs. Baroda and her husband's friend. I agree that at Chopin's time this very well may have been considered explicit. As for how this story would fit in today's society, it would not be considered explicit and would on the contrary would be a very well liked story and situation. The theme of equality between man and woman in the story can be seen by the way Mrs. Baroda acts for herself and keeps her desires to herself and doesn't tell her husband. She has the confidence and strength to do what she wants without asking her husband for his opinion or permission.
1. This description that Chopin gives would not be acceptable because she is married. A woman should not be having sexual feelings towards another man no matter what time period it is. When she says a respectable woman, she is talking about staying committed to someone, being honest with others, and just acting the way that she would want to be treated.
ReplyDelete2. I think that Mrs Baroda wanted to tell her husband of her feelings because she wanted to be honest and be that respectable woman. I think she didn't tell him in the end, because she knew that it would just hurt his feelings and eventually hurt both of them.
3. When Mr. Baroda proposed to have Gouvernail come back and visit, Mrs. Baroda rejected this idea because she did not want to have the same temptation for the man as she did before. She changes her mind about having him over again for one of two reasons. Maybe, she is completely over him and the temptation of being with him, or maybe she is willing to give into that temptation. I believe that she is having him over, because she has already given into that temptation and she wants to see him again.
4. The last line of the story indicates that she truly wants to see him again, and when she sees him, it seems as if she will give into her temptation.
5. For her time period, this would be considered explicit because a woman is supposed to be faithful, and it was probably not very common for a woman to cheat on a man. When the reader reads about this happening, they were probably very stunned. I do not agree that this is very explicit because in our world today, we constantly hear about people having an affair, and it almost seems that it's not as big of a deal as it probably should be. I see the theme that man and woman are equal, when Mr Baroda gives Mrs. Baroda the opportunity to chose whether or not they invite Gouvernail back.
Wow. I feel retarded. I totally forgot about this thing. Haha. Good thing it's not midnight yet. :)
ReplyDelete1. During this time period, like everyone's been saying, women were expected to be completely submissive to their husbands. They were expected to play the role of the stereotypical housewife, making dinner for their husbands, and doing every little thing that was asked of them. The vows of marriage were extremely dtrong and influential on the bond between the man and woman married, and played a huge role in their marriage life. The slightest attraction to another person, especially that of a woman attracted to another man, was frowned upon in society then. Even now, affairs are a huge deal. I'm not saying that things are completely different now than they were back then, but an attraction to another person outside of the bonds of marriage then was a much bigger deal then than it is now, considering the fact that it more or less happens all the time nowadays.
2. I would think that Mrs. Baroda wanted to tell her husband of her thoughts of his friend only because their relationship was so committed and loving. Because of the fact that women were to act a certain way with their husbands, she felt as though it would be the right thing to do to tell him what was going through her head. He didn't understand why she didn't like Gouvernail, so she felt as though she needed to make him understand her reasons for it. In the end, when she decided against telling her husband, I think that she didn't tell him only because of the fact that many problems with their marriage would've arisen. Things would've changed in their marriage, and I don't think she wanted any problems with her husband because of something stupid she was thinking about doing.
3. I think that she rejected his return the first time because she didn't feel as though she was emotionally strong enough to resist the temptation of her desire for Gouvernail. She didn't want to end up doing something that she would regret, and then pay dearly for with her marriage to her husband. When she changes her mind at the end, I think this shows she's becoming more confident with her emotions, and she wants to prove to herself that she's strong enough to resist her desire.
4. Personally, I think she's implying she's gonna get down with him. Because she proved to herself already that she could resist him when he came and sat by her by just getting up and walking away. So next time, I'm thinking it's gonna ne baaaad.
5. Back in that time period, any description of anything that was sensual in any way, shape, or form was considered explicit. But we all know that's TOTALLY different from anything nowadays. I don't think she's being explicit at all, but that's just because I'm used to things considered explicit from this time period. I thought when Mrs. Baroda's husband repected her wishes when she said she wasn't really all that comfortable with Gouvernail returning to stay with them showed the equality of men and women.
1. Basically back in the day before women had rights they were just thought of as just babymakers, devices, things with no real feeling or value. I feel that Chopin is trying to convey that this is not the case and that women have desires and needs just like men. In this case I find it to be extremely sexual but the character is embarrassed of her nature because she knows it is is uncommon or not widely accepted.
ReplyDelete2.Every person has sinful thoughts or desires it is a natural thing that occurs in people. She wanted to tell him because she loves her husband and feels like he has the right to know because she made a promise to him in front of God and the world that never such a thing would occur. On the other hand, she knows that telling him would just hurt him which he does not need and it would hurt their marrige.
3.She rejects him not because she doesn't like him but because she knows that if she sees him she will act on it but if not then she can just ignore it or subdue her thoughts. I'm not so sure about the last question. She seems jumpy. Maybe she just had a womanly mood swing and suddenly got horny and wanted to see this fellow.
4. The lines just indicate that in time she will eventually give into her thoughts and act upon them by doing something with this guy again.
5.It was maybe shunned because male readers didn't want their wives getting any ideas or fantasies about what it would be like to live in Kate's story. I understand the whole woman's rights thing and the sexual awakening thing but marital unfaithfulness is just wrong no matter what time period it is set in. If you want to chase tail then don't put the ring on your finger it is as simple as that. Men and women are equal in the story because women are having rea ideas and perceptions that are serious. The woman is no longer just following the man in wherever and whatever he does.
1. The description would not have been acceptable in the time Chopin wrote this because woman were not allowed or viewed upon has being able to have emotions or feelings. Women were supposed to be submissive to their husbands, and were supposed to respect them as well. Through this description, she has emotions and feelings that are not acceptable for a lady of the time to have. She is not submissive to her husband at the time and wants another man. By “respectable woman”, she means that it would not have been proper etiquette or behavior for her to do the things with Gouvernail that she wanted to do. She would have been viewed upon as a whore or an adulterer for not being submissive to her husband and having an affair with another man.
ReplyDelete2. I think that she wanted to tell her husband about her emotions because she probably felt a little bit guilty for what she had felt. Through that guilt she felt like by telling him, it would have rid her of guilt and shame and that the feelings would end up going away. I think she decided not to tell him to protect their relationship and to not hurt her husband. I think she was scared that he would be extremely upset because she had feelings for one of his best friends. She probably felt that he would have left her just for those little feelings she had, even though she didn’t even act upon those emotions.
3. I think she rejects him to return because she doesn’t want to be tempted by her emotions for him again. She knows that those feelings may be uncontrollable and could end up getting her in a lot of trouble, or that her husband will end up finding up about those emotions which would devastate him. She could eagerly accept him coming back because of two different reasons. First, she could want to act upon those emotions and not care what a respectable woman would be and do what she wants. Or second, she may want to see if she is finally over those emotions she gained about him and finally get closure on the whole situation.
4. I think the last sentences basically infer that she wants to begin an affair with this man. She said that she has overcome everything and that she will be very nice this time. Well my question is what made her all of a sudden change her mind about being nice to him unless she wants something from him which would mean that she wants to act upon the emotions she has for him.
5. I think for the time period that the thing that was seen as explicit is how Mrs. Baroda explains her feelings for Gouvernail. Women were not supposed to have emotions for other males besides their husbands. It was seen as unrespectable and deceiving to their husbands. I think that it is wrong just because she is married and should only have feelings for her husband if she truly loves him. It’s explicit because she is tempted to be unfaithful to her husband and at the end of the story intends to do so.
Sorry forgot to put my name on my comment!! Mine is above.
ReplyDeleteHeather Maheu
In response to Liz F. #2
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. Mrs. Baroda didn’t want to burden her husband with the thought of his wife wanting to be unfaithful. How would he have dealt with that knowledge? The comfort of knowing she resisted wouldn’t have been enough to lighten the burden. Then, how would he have dealt with her wanting Gouvernail to visit again if he knew what she wanted to do before?
Tina Gallmeyer
1. This description was concidered unacceptable for a woman to be saying, because bsck then women were supposed to be reserved and very polite. In this time women were not supposed to express their feelings in such romantic ways especially when they are not married to the person.
ReplyDeleteshe is describing her feelings for a man that is not her husband. This kind of behavior is unacceptable.
2. She wanted to tell her husband her feelings because she felt bad that she was having feelings for someone that was not her husband. She decided not to tell her husband about her feelings because she was unsure of how he would react and she didnt know how to handle her feelings.
3. She rejected his return in the first place because she did not want to have to face her feelings for him and she didnt want her husband to find out about her feelings. She ended up changing her mind because she wanted to express her feelings to Gouvernail.
4. When she says, "This time I shall be very nice to him" she is implying that she is actually going to act on her feelings for Gouvernail.
5. I would agree that for this time period this writing may be easily seen as explicit because of the way she talks about how she wants to have an affair with this man and in the end of the story she elluds to that fact that she is actually going to act on her feelings towards this man. Throughout the story there is a theme of men and women being equal. This is seen when Mr. Baroda said he was delighted with the suggestions that were coming from his wife it shows that he took her opinion into concideration and actually listened to whet she had to say.
Hey guys,this is for anyone to answer:
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Chopin's definition of a respectable woman is the same as the defintion society holds? Do you think she holds the same standards for a "respectable woman" as society sets?
To Everyone about question #4:
ReplyDeleteWho besides me thinks that the last paragraph is sexual? She says "this time i shall be very nice to him" what does very nice imply. Could she fight off the urges for Gouvernail and put her marriage at risk? I think that she will not be a "respectable woman" after she sees Mr. Gouvernail again. I believe that she will give in on her feelings toward him and express them sexually.
In response to Tyler #3...
ReplyDeleteI agree that Mrs. Baroda originally didn't want to face her feelings and express them to Gouvernail. It's really hard for someone to face the truth about certain situations, and that's probably how she felt. People say, "truth hurts," which could be looked at in more than one way. The truth about Mrs. Baroda's feelings toward her husband's friend could hurt their marriage. Also it hurts to hold the truth inside, especially if you are a guilty person. We all face events, not necessarily regarding lustful thoughts, in our lives that we think would ruin everything if the truth were known. Then again, there will be less pain in the long run if the truth is the first thing you say, and you don't beat around the bush. As we were talking about in bible, truth may be "messy" but it would be even worse if you lied first.
I hope that all makes sense.
In response to Nathan's question...
ReplyDeleteChopin expresses Mrs. Baroda's idea of a respectable woman as one of the time frame they were living in, but Chopin herself probably thought differently. So Mrs. Baroda's views of respectiveness were similar to that of the society, but Kate Chopin did not have the same views. We all know that Kate Chopin wanted women to have the freedom and the right to do what they want, but that just didn't coordinate with the lifestyles they were supposed to be living at that time. Hence why her stories were pulled off the shelves.
in response to Destiny's response to me:
ReplyDeleteI didn't say she was unfaithful, I said she was tempted to be unfaithful.
in response to Erin:
ReplyDeleteWhen she says that she got over everything and that the friend comes back, it means that she got over the guilt. That is why the final sentence is sexual.
in response to Adam:
ReplyDeleteYes I agree that the last paragraph is sexual. The implication is that she is inviting him back because she intends to be unfaithful to her husband. "This time I will be very nice to hin" means that when he returns she will not turn away from her temptation as she did previously.
In response to Adam's last question...
ReplyDeleteYes! I would agree with you 100% that the last paragraph that she says, but mainly the last sentenced is suggesting that she would act upon her lust. I believe that Cholin however, is trying to make a statement of a "respectable woman" when she does not further explain the plot line and the short story comes to an abrupt stop.
In response to everyone...
Many people are using the word unfaithul and how society at that time would be unaccepting, which in my opinion is true and correct. However, I believe that there is something more uncommon to be written about in Choplin's work, the fact that woman have lustful thoughts too. In that erea, woman were to be submissive to their husbands and but were never thought of as sexual beings.
In response to Liz Fred:
ReplyDeleteI completly agree with all of your answers to the questions. I basically expressed the same things in my answers, only you way of explaining it was much better than the way that I explained it. Anyway I think these questions in all were fairly easy and i dont think anyone should have really gotten them wrong.
In response to Adam's question
ReplyDeleteI agree that the last question has a sexual implication. I think that she is planning to act out on her instinctive sexual feelings toward Guvernail. When she implies that she will not hold back the next time that he comes to stay with them, i think it was part of what people found so explicit about the story.
In response to Nathan's question
Chopins idea of a respectable woman was ahead of her time. At her time it was shunned because women weren't encouraged to be free thinking and free acting. I think her idea of a free thinking woamn who is allowed to do what she wants, is close to what our society believes now.
To Everyone:
ReplyDeleteI keep seeing everyone say that Chopin's description of Mrs. Baroda's thoughts about her feelings toward Gouvernail were dramatically explicit, and how back then, women weren't supposed to be doing those kinds of things and whatever just based on society's preconceived notions about their character. I mean, I guess I get the whole idea and everything, but regardless of the fact that it may have been looked down on back then, I don't see how people, even during that time period, didn't get the fact that women were sexual, too. They would've been stupid to think that kids popped into the world when a man wanted a woman, they went into a bedroom together, shook hands, then high fived or something, and the only person of the two thought to be sexual at all was the man. If that makes any sense at all haha.
To Heather's Number Four:
I totally get what you're saying. I think that based on the things that Baroda said to Gouvernail, she wants him. But not friend-like. I think, too, that Baroda's actions and thoughts towards Gouvernail directly reflected those of Chopin, herself. Her stories were out of character for women of that time period, and she wasn't too down with the idea that women were supposed to be the way that they were and everything. So you're like, spot on, chap. Haha. I think she's showing her ideals through the descriptions and explanations of senorita Baroda.
In response to Nathan's question, i think that Chopin's and society's views are generally the same. I believe that many would say a respectable woman is one who has a strong moral base, and doesn't falter from it easily. I think that that is exactly what Chopin is trying to get across when she says "respectable woman".
ReplyDeleteIn response to Meghan's comment, Ha ha i didn't know you were funny. But i agree with you in regards to women being sexual too; you brought up good points. However, i don't think thats what was being looked down upon, i think the fact that she basically wanted to cheat with Gouvernail is what is looked down upon.
In response to most people, I can't completely agree that the last paragraph implies with out a doubt that Mrs. Baroda would act upon her desires if Gouvernail would return ever again. I think she wants him to return so she can again feel the attraction she experienced towards him, she may also keep it to a subtle flirt if they met again. I don't see her acting upon these desires in a sexually explicit way such as starting an affair, because I believe she has enough love and respect for her husband and their marriage. This pretty much contradicts what I said in my answer to Number 4 last night, but this is what I would guess would happen if Chopin ever were to write further into the story.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Adam's question.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone who thinks that the last sentence is completely sexual. She is giving into her lust and the temptation of being with Gouvernail. This completely diverges from the fact that she is a respectable woman. If she gives into her lust, she will no longer be respectable.
In response to Nathan's question.
I think Chopin's definition of respectable is different than the society of that time. Her writings were explicit and maybe to her, these writings did not seem bad for the public.
In response to Nathan's questions...
ReplyDeleteYes, I think that her definition is the same when she is writing and describing some of her characters, but not in the way that she lives. She does not hold the same standards for a "respectable woman", because she isnt as "submisive", and is more free thinking and isnt afraid to share it. She stands up for what she believes in and speaks her opinion, which didnt happen a lot during that time period.
Meghan I love the way you phrase things. Especially question number 4. I think for some reason she has some personal things that make her want to get down a lot more than she should with people that she shouldn't be. Reading Kate Chopin convinces me of why the world has gone to hell in hand basket, everything is sexual, and GGW is a prevelent influence in our society.
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