Alright, it's round two. After Adam's response to the novel, and the simplicity of the plot that may or may not cause you to want to finish the novel, I want to hear your thoughts. Therefore, respond to the prompt below. Same format--two paragraphs for your response, 1-2 paragraphs for each person you respond to (at least two of your peers).
Here's your prompt:
Discuss any changes in tone from Part I to the beginning of Part II. Discuss Meursault before and after his arrest. Has anything changed? (use evidence). What has changed about his perception of Marie? How do you think she feels about Meursault's situation? (we never hear her side).
Do you think that the story has reached an uneventful climax only to fall to a boring end? Why or why not? Based on your reaction to the climax, do you want to keep reading? Why or why not? If you think Camus focused on writing an uneventful climax, based on what we know of Camus, do you think he did this on purpose? If so, what is his purpose?
I know this is long, but spend some time thinking about why Camus may have constructed a "boring" "simple" "uneventful" novel. Where's the suspense?!!
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This will be kind of hard for me to answer because I have already read ahead but I do think Meursault’s tone changed. He used to be uncaring about everything and everybody, whether he was just suppressing his emotions or whether he had any emotions to suppress in the first place. Part I saw him as a totally stoic character. He seemed immune to pain and pleasure in equal shares, to a degree past what most normal humans could be. His character is also very static and unchanging. The emotional stimuli of his environment seem to have no effect on his psyche whatsoever. His is bizarrely very impervious and invulnerable.
ReplyDeleteIn Part II, however, readers can see a distinct change creeping into his thoughts. Prison, which is cold and unchanging in itself, seems to be molding Meursault’s outlook on life. Because his environment is no longer in the constant flux of a smaller but industrious and vibrant community, Meursault must change, because that is human nature. (I’m not sure if this is past where we are. à) He starts sleeping a lot more, and looking forward to the little things which he can do in prison, such as going for walks, memorizing his cell, remembering his past life, and, of course, his trips to the magistrate. His emotions start to shine through in patches, though he either doesn’t know it or is trying to suppress them. The former is more likely, as changes that happen within us are not always evident from our standpoint, because we are not objective enough.
Even to the reader these changes are subtle hints and not obvious manifestations; he now sees Marie truly as beautiful instead of just attractive as before; his eyes are opening even more to the world around him. As for Marie, I thought for sure she would be scared off with the murder, but of course she is as persistent as ever in her devotion to Meursault. At first I thought she was rather shallow but I’m starting to find that she is very strong. I’m not sure where I stand on the climax; I hope that the book finishes with a bang, but as Camus is the author, he is very unpredictable and it would not surprise me if there was another climax; nor if it just trails off, proving that it *was* all pointless. I would like to keep reading, just because we’re halfway there and might as well find out what happens, even if it is a disappointment. Better to be disappointed than left wondering (I’m sure some of you will disagree).
Sorry that this was so long guys! :P
From part 1 to part 2 Meursault's tone has not changed horrendously, but i have seen a slight change in emotion towards different things. While he was on the beach he was calm and actually enjoying him self. Meursault was actually felling something towards Marie and even announced that he felt as if he were really getting married. After he was arrested i think that he spent a lot of time thinking about what was actually going on, his mom, and Marie. With his mom, i could imagine he truly did miss her, but the reason he has held his emotions in so long was because he didn't want to break down, so instead he would change a conversation just to avoid the subject.
ReplyDeleteMarie, on the other hand has probably pondered upon what was going to happen with her and Meursault's relationship. If i were in Marie's shoes i would have to walk away from the situation and give up on him, after all he did kill a man, he didn't have to much hope in getting out of prison. Meursault's emotions have caught up with him in the new way of describing Marie. I think that he realizes that he does love her and that now he should take the time to accept that. When she comes to visit him in the box he describes her to be beautiful, instead of saying how bad he wanted to have sex with her or "go for a swim". Meursault's problems are going to catch up with him, and he's finally going to break down in court telling everyone that stands before him.
The climax at this point in the book is sort of uneventful. I say this because i don't think much can happen after this, there should be a "cops and robber" kind of chase, or a jail bust. Instead i think the book is going to take us deeper into his mind or feelings or something boring on the lines of that. I also believe that Camus way of unfolding this plot, up until this "climax", is important. Being that the climax is boring i think he did this on purpose, to show the readers who Meursault really is. Meursault is just a good for nothing, that doesn't care about anything that goes on around him, unless it involves himself. Meursaults' eyes are broadening to more horizons and i think he will start to accept his past and think about it more and more and really perceive love and understand the difference between his love with his mom and Marie. The climax is a uneventful at the moment, but it will all come back into play when he get a true grasp on Meursault.
In response to Alie:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on saying that Meursualt's perceptions on life will change shortly because he is in jail and there is nothing to do. I just thought about him being the "Antichrist" too. Don't you think that he is going to find God while in jail? After being harassed with a crucifix i think he might actually think about this God person, and why his mom believed in him and also why the magistrate was pushing it in his face, because that is his only hope. Maybe he will get out of jail when he accepts Jesus and maybe him and Marie might actually get married.
I must say i disagree with you when it comes to the thought Marie being a weak person. I kind of admire her because of her boldness to change Meursault. I think that what she has to say to him does affect his thoughts and perceptions of her. I also looked at her in disbelief when Meursault didn't admit to loving her, but she went on with him anyways. That is weird, but i think she has something going with it; like she's trying to bring him out of his shell, and sh'e the only one going to be able to do so, because he would never talk about his problems to Salamano or Raymond it even says that in the book, but because he has an emotional and sexual relationship with Marie i think she may be able to shed off a couple of thoughts that have been dragging him behind this whole time.
In response to Destiny:
ReplyDeleteGood points. I don't think Meursault changed just because he had "nothing to do," though. Having nothing to focus his energies on and nothing to fulfill his thirst for details (except his cell, which he comes to memorize in detail, and dreaming about his past life) has caused him to broaden his emotional horizons. He's turned in to himself in his search for this detail. I find this ironic because he is so focused on what's on the surface of things, how he must see a surface of something, whether an object or an idea, but then refuses to explore it deeper. Also, he is so concerned about the physical and his physical needs--mostly sleep, which he gets plenty of--that when he does not have a phyical need, finally he turns to memories, if not emotions. (He does still seek detail though, in his cell.) And also I actually said Marie was very strong.
Meursault's tone has definitely changed. He still has his blunt and slightly bored way of telling us what's going on, where he is, and what he sees, but he is adding more details. His new details aren't just what he sees, though. When he sees Marie, for example, he talks about the only thing he has to hope for is to squeeze her shoulders. He doesn’t mention anything about sleeping with her or anything else; it’s a small thing and it surprised me. Also, if you think about earlier in the novel, when Raymond beat up his woman and the police were involved, Meursault avoided involvement, possibly because he didn’t want to deal with the consequences. Now that he has shot the Arab, he accepts what happens immediately. However, he is uncomfortable in the situation, until towards the end of the chapter when he says that he enjoyed his meetings with the magistrate and his lawyer. The biggest change I noticed was when he said that he felt like “one of the family” with them.
ReplyDeleteI think that the book will not be boring or uneventful so much as something we don’t expect. The whole book, so far, seems to be uneventful but we, as a class through our papers, research, and discussion have pulled a lot out of it. I think that the end of the book will be disappointing to most of us because Camus’ style isn’t something we would normally read or a type of movie we would see. The detailed drone doesn’t make it attractive to us, but its content forces us to think of things that we wouldn’t normally give a second thought to.
Of course I would like to keep reading! On top of being one of those weird people who reads for pleasure, I am highly interested in Meursault’s trial and whether or not he will be convicted. I am not familiar with what the punishment would be if he wasn’t acquitted.
Finally, I believe that Camus writes monotonously on purpose because, to him, life is just a means to an end, a journey towards death. Therefore it wouldn’t matter where Meursault was for his journey, in or out of prison. I also think that his message could be that life happens and when it does there’s nothing you can do about it
In response to Destiny:
ReplyDeleteI do not think that he will find God or even think about him. Camus believed God didn't exist so why would his character end up being saved and having a nice happy ending? I think that being harassed with a crucifix he would decide that only crazy people like the magistrate would believe in stories like that. Also, Meursault says himself that he has nothing to hope for other than being able to hold Marie. If Meursault ends up converting to Christianity the entire book is pointless and Camus didn't really write it.
There are not too many changes in tone from part 1 to part 2. It is mainly things like there is more description and details, and we actually get to begin to see a little emotion from Meursault. Overall the tone is still pretty similar to what it was earlier in the book. Meursault is starting to change somewhat though. Earlier in the book he didnt care about much at all, and was kind of just going through life without any meaning. Now that he has benn arrested I think that he is starting to have a few more feelings for other people, and become more emotional. An example of this could be with Marie. Before he only liked being with her because of thier physical relationship. Now I think that he is starting to realize that she is better than that, and that he might actually like her for different reasons. Marie is deffinitely worried about Meursault and what will happen to him. She still has hope that things will turn out fine, and she tells him to have hope too, but it still has to be hard to be positive in this situation, because Meursault killed someone for no reason, and its really hard to not get in trouble for that.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that the story has reached an uneventful climax only to fall to a boring end? Why or why not? Based on your reaction to the climax, do you want to keep reading? Why or why not? If you think Camus focused on writing an uneventful climax, based on what we know of Camus, do you think he did this on purpose? If so, what is his purpose?
I think that the story will still have something interesting or some kind of climax at the end, because something has to happen to Meursault. He will either die or be released, both of which could have some interesting twist with them. I actually do want to keep reading because I want to find out what will happen to Meuarsault, and I've already read half of the book, so it would be pointless to not finish it. I actaully somewhat enjoy reading it to, beacuse it is simple and easy to follow, and keeps my attention.
So far in the novel, it appears to me that nothing has changed in Meursault's tone. I feel he has the same attitude as he did before. In Part I when Marie asks Meursault if he loved her, "I told her it didn't matter but that I didn't think so" (35). Then in Part I, when Meursault was asked if he felt sadness about his mom's death he said, "I probably did love Maman, but that didn't mean anything" (65). Some things still didn't matter to him, which makes me feel his tone didn't change. Although, it did appear that he showed a small amount of emotion when he claimed Marie looked "beautiful," which was unexpected, because thus far he had acted as if her true beauty didn't matter to him. As Marie went to visit Meursault in jail, she was probably very concerned about him, but I don't know if he realizes that she feels that way.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Meursault killing the Arab was exactly the climax of the sotry. It was definitely a turning point, and Meursault is probably slowly but surely expressing more feelings. But as of right now, his tone has not changed very drastically. It is a subtle change, if any. I'm thinking there will be a second "climax" that is actually eventful. At this point, I am not particularly excited about reading the rest of the novel, because I'm concerned Meursault will behave the same way as he has. I would be glad if he did eventually show more emotion, and I would be glad if something happened at the end that taught him to care more about life.
I'm pretty sure Camus has a more underlying purpose to the story, it just hasn't been made visible to us yet. I think he's going to keep the exitential, or "absurd," idea going and eventually it will all make sense...at least I hope so...
In response to Destiny...
ReplyDeleteI think I'd have to leave Meursault to if I were in Marie's shoes. I think I'd feel frightened whenever I was with him, because he did, in fact, kill someone. He had to apparent reason to kill the Arab either. Also, he agreed with Raymond, that his mistress deserved payback, [beating] because of what happened. I would be scared that if I ever made him mad, he'd harm me in some way.
Plus, I'm the kinda person who tries to keep people out of trouble, so I wouldn't want him doing anything wrong, especially if it involved hurting someone else.
In response to Liz F...
ReplyDeleteThe way you worded your first paragraph somewhat made me change my opinion about Marie and Meursault's relationship. I wansn't particularly thinking about Meursault not wanting to be involved with the situation between Raymond and his mistress. I was looking at all the negative possible reactions to what happened. I suppose he is doing the right thing, in wanting to accept the consequences for killing the Arab. I will stand by what I said earlier about being in Marie's shoes, though; I would be concerned. I guess whether I'd leave or not would have to depend more on how much I truly cared for Meursault. Yes, I would be disappointed in him, but if I loved him, I probably wouldn't leave.
I do not think there have been any large tone changes from Part I to the beginning of Part II. However, compared to the overall tone portrayed though Meursault, I suppose we must view the slight tone change as more of a significant one. I think that in the beginning part II, the only apparent tone change is Meursault’s attitude and perspective. I don’t think he even realizes it, but Meursault is now actually displaying some attitude other than his usual indifference (which is all we read about in the first half of the novel). He now actually describes the world around him with stronger attitudes. This is especially evident when he describes Marie. I hate to beat a dead horse and use the same example everyone else has so far, but of well, here it goes…Meursault actually reveals some emotion when he describes Marie as “beautiful” when she visits him in jail. Let me explain why I think this… You can usually tell how someone feels by how they speak. More specifically, their word choice. Suppose two people, one is indifferent and the other passionate, look up at the sky and each describe the same sunset they are viewing. The indifferent person would merely comment that the sunset looked “pretty” or “slightly warming”. The person who actually cares about the sunset would describe it as “beautiful”, “amazing”, or even “breath-taking”. This same idea can be applied to Meursault’s description of Marie. At the beginning of the novel, he describes Marie with commonly used adjectives, such as “pretty” or “enjoyable”. The tone change is noticeable when she visits him and he describes her as “beautiful”. No longer does he just speculate on her appearance, but he actually how feels how beautiful she is. Of course, if we, as readers, didn’t have an insight to his character and know that he suppresses emotions whenever possible, then common sense would tell us that since Meursault is in jail surrounded by a bunch of male Arabs all day, for several days, of course he is going to think is girlfriend is stunning and beautiful.
ReplyDeleteAs for Marie, I think that she is worried about him, but is devoted to him. Anyone who thought that she would leave him after he killed the Arab should reconsider. She visits him in jail and does not even mention ending their unique relationship. Instead, she only shows love and concern for him. Obviously, Marie is not going anywhere yet and plans to stick with Meursault. At least she will until the conclusion of his prosecution. I do also think that if she knew his answers to the lawyer’s questions (particularly about Maman’s death), she would probably be freaking out a lot more and worrying about his court case.
I think that due to Camus’ style of writing, the ending scene in part I is about as close to a climax as we will read about, other than the court ruling of the prosecution. I believe that the whole reason Camus writes this way is to demonstrate how life doesn’t really have a climax, but is instead a series of events strung together. I want to keep reading because I want find out what happens to Meursault. In this way, Camus is a both a unique and skilled writer. Rather than using cliffhangers to draw the readers into his novel, he uses different techniques. He instead keeps the reader interested because since we are used to lots of action and suspense, he writes plainly, so that we keep reading to look for a more interesting event in the novel. In other words, the whole book seems as if it is composed of what comes before “the good stuff” in the novel.
The tone from part one to part two, haven’t changed very much. The tone did change slightly, however. In part one Meursalt doesn’t seem to feel any emotions. He doesn’t feel strongly about everything, and has a casual attitude about everything in his life. In part two we begin to see him show some emotions. When he is in jail, he shows emotion about losing freedom, and when he has to quit smoking. His perception of Marie has also changed in part two. In part one he doesn’t seem to care if she is there or not. In part two, it is apparent that he misses her and wishes to be with her. Marie is probably very distraught over what has happened to Meursalt. Although these emotions go away quickly, he still shows them. Based off of how much she cared about him before he was arrested. She is probably very worried about Meursalt, and hopeful that he will get out soon.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think that the killing of the Arab was the only climax of the novel. I believe that there will be something that will happen in the end that will be unexpected. I think that it is just a turning point that set up the rest of the novel. Camus will probably have something happen t the end, which goes along with his whole absurd, life is useless viewpoint. His purpose in this uneventful part of the novel, could be to show the absurdity of life, with some final twist, that shows life’s’ uselessness.
In response to Parker
ReplyDeleteI agree with you when you say that something has to happen in the novel It would pointless of Camus to have nothing else happen to Meursalt. I don't think that this book would be so highly acclaimed, if nothing interesting happened in it. I also agree that this book is easy to read, and i look forward to seeing what will happen.
In response to Alie
ReplyDeleteBefore i read your comment i, was under the impression that Meursalt did not change from part one to part two. After I read it, though, i kind of realized that his tone did change. His emotions, although they were miniscule did show through. I agreed with you when you said that prison is changing Meursalt's outlook on life. I think that the killing of the Arab has changed his emotions me than he realizes.
In response to Matt:
ReplyDeletei highly doubt there will be any sort of turning point after this. It is Camus after all. I think that that this is the " climax" and even though its not much of a turning point or change of plot noot much can happen after this unless Marie and him marry or break apart from oneanother. I dont think much good can come out from the rest of the book, but i do beilive that Camus will tie all of this together in some ridicouls way that we may not understand fully, because Camus has a weird way to telling a story and letting the plot line folw.
I also disagree with you saying that Meursault reveals some what of emotion, such as freedom. I beileve that he is still very tight rounded and doesn't let him self unravel to anyone. He may start to towards the end, but only with Marie and probley not much. What more do you think Camus would do with the plot after a murder? I dont think much could happen, and evne though its a dual climax it is a climax, boring or not.
* p.s. your seconded sentence is a fragment*
Mersault’s tone has changed since the end of Part 1 to the beginning of Part 2. He talks about how prison is awful and he doesn’t want to be there. He would rather be out with Marie. He is very discontent with being in the place. He often becomes irritated with the magistrate which is unusual to his behavior and mindset on life. He talks about how he likes to listen to people, especially when talking to Raymond, but in Part 2, the magistrate pushes him to an extreme level of uncomfort.
ReplyDeleteWe also see a change in Mersault’s character when Marie visits him at the prison. He says she looks beautiful, and wants to tell her, but doesn’t know how. I think he is starting to get more feelings than what was anticipated towards Marie, and Marie starts to gain those same feelings. I think that she is a little uncomfortable and depressed about the situation. I still think she loves him enough to marry him though, but she needs some reassurance that he still wants her as well.
Unfortunately, I think that The Stranger has reached its climax, and the rest of the book will be uneventful. I think Camus writes the novel this way because it is how he lives his own life. He doesn’t believe that life has meaning and everything that happens within it is just absurd. Not every story has a happy ending, and he wants to portray that to the reader. Life just happens, and there’s nothing that we can do about it.
-Heather Maheu
In response to Abi…
ReplyDeleteI think that Meursault actually did realize that Marie was concerned about him; he just did not dwell on that fact. After all, why would he? At this point in the story, if he were to begin reading anyone’s emotions, he would first start examining his own. At this point he is slowly, subtly starting to realize how he feels about Marie and how committed she is to him. On a different note, I like how you suggested that Meursault killing the Arab is not necessarily the climax of the story, but instead a turning point. In addition, I agree with you Meursault’s character is developing and changing very subtly.
Not a lot has changed with Meursault. He is still the indifferent character that we know from the beginning of the novel. He still has not changed his views about God as we see in the first chapter of the second part of the novel. ¨drawing himself up to his full height and asking me if I believed in God. I said no¨(69). He still views Marie as someone he likes to be with and spend time with, but he does not feel one way or the other about getting married to her. Based on this I think Marie is becoming very frustrated with Meursault and because of his situation it makes her want him even more than she did before. Thats why she tells him that when he gets out that they are going to get married.
ReplyDeleteI think that the book has reached an uneventful climax, and I think it is because I did not expect Meursault to get arrested right away. I expected the climax to drag on a little bit longer which would lead to more excitement. Instead the second part of the book starts off with Meursault already arrested. Although, just because the novel did not turn out how I expected it to I still want to finish the novel. I think that there is some sort of reason that the storyline plays out the way it does and I want to see what kind of excitement Camus has in store for us in the rest of the novel.
Knowing what I know about Camus, which is not much, I believe that he made the storyline of this novel like this for a reason. I don't have to know much about Camus to know that there is a reason for how this novel is playing out, because I know that all authors have a reason for writing what they write. Otherwise they wouldn't be very good writers. Based on this idea I want to continue to read the rest of the novel and find out what is in store for Meursault later on down the road.
In response to Abi:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, and i think you made a very good point when you said that Meursault killing the Arab may have been just a turning point. This makes me wonder what the true climax of the story will end up being. Therefore, it makes me want to continue reading the novel too find out what happens next.
in response to Nathan-
ReplyDeleteI liked what you said was the possible reason for Camus writing in the way that he does. You said that the reason for him writing like this was maybe to prove the point that life has no climax and it is simply a series of events strung together. I like this idea and it seems very possible with what what we know about Camus. The only thing is that this is true then the rest of the novel is going to be very boring and in that case i would not like to read the rest of the novel.
In response to Matt,
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree with you that Mersault’s tone has changed, but only slightly which could mean significantly because of Mersault’s normal personality. He becomes flustered and uncomfortable with the magistrate waving a crucifix in his face and just agrees with him to get him off his back; we have not seen this emotion before. He also doesn’t know how to tell Marie that she is “beautiful” which means that his view about their relationship has changed. Someone in just a physical, not meaningful relationship would not respond to their significant other as beautiful, maybe “hot or sexy”.
Do you really think that there will be an unexpected event at the end of the book? Camus did not live his life with hope. There was nothing for him to do after his life according to him, do you really think that he would write to his readers about some kind of hope?
In response to Liz Fred,
I completely agree with your last paragraph. Camus does write monotonously and simple, but the readers infer what they want to believe. He writes so simplistic and hopeless that our minds simply can’t comprehend it. According to Camus, there was no meaning to his life, and I think that he portrays that through his character. However, do you think that Mersault’s path in the book won’t matter? If he gets out of prison, won’t it be somewhat of a happy ending fairytale type thing and something good that finally happens to Mersault (which is not the way Camus was and lived his life)?
-Heather Maheu
In response to Tyler…
ReplyDeleteI thought you brought p a very interesting and good point when you suggested that Meursault’s unrelenting indifference towards Marie want him more. This is the same idea as someone ignoring a person who is in love with him or her so that they try even harder to have them. However, I do not know if this is the reason Marie wants to marry him as soon as he gets out. Perhaps just wants to get married in general and her feelings towards Meursault tell her that he should be the one.
In response to Nathan:
ReplyDeleteI really liked your last paragraph and I agree completely. I never thought of it that way, but you are right. The only reason I want to keep reading is because I'm waiting for something good to happen.
I also like how you described Meursault's tone change and your sunset example.
In response to Heather:
ReplyDeleteI should've been clearer in saying that Meursault's path didn't matter. What I meant was that I don't think the book will have a happy ending such as Meursault getting out of prison. I think the rest of the book will be extremely disappointing, for both the readers and the characters. If (and I believe when) Meursault is convicted, it will not matter because, as you stated in your last paragraph, life happens and there is nothing we can do about it.
There is not much tone change between the two parts of the novel. Camus writes in generally the same tone throughout. For Muersault the only thing that has changed is that he is no longer a free man. His lifestyle has changed completly because of this as is does for every prisoner. Muersault sees his life in a different light because he now has intense restrictions on what he is allowed to do.
ReplyDeleteMuersault does see Marie in a differant manner. This is due to the fact that since he is in prison and can no longer spend time with Marie at his convenience, he begins to see her on more of an emotional level instead of a physical. Although it is hard for Meursault to see anything on an emotional level, he begins to open up and percieve Marie as something more than an object.
Although Camus never writes about Marie's feeling during the book, it is apparent she still likes Meursault and wants to spend time with him. She missed Meursault and while she wishes the murder never happened, it did not change her view or attraction for Meursault, in fact it may have created more attraction towards him.
I was not dissaponted with the climax and the book so far afterwards. I don't think it is falling to a boring end either. This may be because I never expected for it to be a very exciting book in the first place. I want to keep reading because I want to know what happens to Meursault and I also find it interesting to view the world through Meursault's eyes because he is so unique in his view on life. I don't think Camus purposely tried to make the climax uneventful or boring. I think Camus has a diffinitive and individually unique style of writing and he enjoyed writing in that fashion. Based on his writing's Camus probably didn't care what anyone thought about his book so why try to please the audience with an jaw-dropping climax?
To Parker
ReplyDeleteI agree with just about everything you wrote, I see the novel in a similar manner. I think that it could be interesting in the end if Camus puts a twist onto what is going to happen to Meursault. I enjoyed reading your post because I felt like I was going to say the same thing. I deffinatly agrre with the way Meursault is opening up his view on his relationship with Marie past the physical and onto something a little more deep.
In response to Abi:
ReplyDeleteI disagree with you when you say that there might be another, more eventful climax because, according to Camus, life is absurd. So, the murder of the Arab was just another one of those absurd things in life that cannot be controlled; we shouldn't waste our time or energy being upset about it. In spite of these happenings, life continues. What I am trying to say is that if there were another, exciting climax it would disprove the point that it doesn't matter when things like murder happen.
I have not seen any difference in Meursault before and after his arrest. Before his arrest, Meursault was not an emotional person at all; he showed no emotion towards Marie, or his mother’s death, and now that he was arrested, it seems as if he shows no remorse towards killing the man; he talks as if his case was simple. After Meursault got arrested I have a feeling that Marie was very upset with Meursault, for both killing a man and for also getting them separated. I bet she is upset because she can no longer spend time with Meursault like she would like to.
ReplyDeleteI do feel that the novel as hit an uneventful climax. I feel that when his case gets called to court, there might be something that happens, but it will not be much. I am kind of interested however, to see if he throws some kind of twist into the novel, such as Marie dying and Meursault maybe showing some kind of emotion. I am kind of interested in reading the rest of the novel to see what happens to Marie and Meursault.
Before I start ranting, I’m going to venture off and disagree with most of the class. Between part one and part two I don’t find much difference in the tone. Throughout the novel Meursault’s character has not been intact with his emotional side. We see it right away when Maman died, and when he attended her funeral. He never once cried about her death and we see that he doesn’t care about anyone or anything. Throughout the book he never once said he loved his mother, he said he thinks he loved his mom. When we found out about the relationship between Marie and Meursault, most people in our class only thought that Meursault was in the relationship for the physical aspect. I didn’t see a change when Meursault called Marie beautiful when she came and visited him when he was in prison. We saw earlier in the book it says “her face looked like a flower” (34), even though he didn’t say that she was beautiful, he implied it. I think when someone is compared to a flower; it basically says that she is beautiful, who knows maybe it was an ugly flower.
ReplyDeleteThe story has reached an uneventful climax and it will only get worse. Camus is only going to drag along the story and end with a boring end. Camus’s perception on life is that life is meaningless and absurd, why would he add something exciting to the story now? His opinion on life is that it is simply as a cycle, you live and die and that’s it. I’m very disappointed in the climax of the story; I believe that the climax was random which no one saw coming. I have no interest in reading the rest of the book because of what we know about Camus’s outlook on life, a boring ending will only bring more support to his logic that life is meaningless.
To Tyler Roberts
ReplyDeleteI agree with your first paragraph, especially about the point that Marie feels more attraction for Meursault after he was arrested and she wants him even more now. The rest of your post made sense and I can see where you are coming from. I want to read the rest of the book for a similar reason to yours. The one thing I don't agree on is the book reaching an uneventful climax, I never really had expectations for an exciting climax.
In response to Parker:
ReplyDeleteI agree with Parker almost completely except for the fact that he said that we begin to see a little more emotion out of Meursault. He shows the same little emotion towards him getting arrested as he shows towards his mother's death and Marie's proposal. I am also interested in reading the book because it would be pointless to stop reading half way through the book, but I would also like to see if Camus throws in some kind of twist to excite the novel.
In response to Joel:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about what you said about Marie being mad at Meursault. Marie has told Meursault that she cares about him very much and wants to marry him. For Meursault to put their relationship on jeopardy triggers a thought in my mind, that maybe Meursault didn’t want to be with her and the only way out and get away from her, was for him to kill the Arab man. In Meursault's mind maybe living in jail would be better than living with Marie. All jokes aside, I believe that Marie cares for Meursault very much and for her to stand by him through this time would be meaningful to anyone.
I would also take your point and expand on it on the behalf of Raymond. I would think that Raymond would be more aggravated by the situation that Meursault killed the Arab than him. Meursault was never really into the problem and for him to jump in and kill the Arab man for him, is crossing the line. It was never his business so the question in my head is why he killed him?
In response to Joel:
ReplyDeleteI think Meursault's apparent lack of remorse is due to the fact that he believes his case IS simple; in his eyes, if you kill a man, you pay the price, and he is prepared to accept that. Why would he attempt to convince the magistrate that he is sorry when he knows that he is not innocent?
In response to Adam/Beach:
Adam, for once I completely agree with you, that is, I agree with your predictions about the rest of the book and your reasons for believing so. A boring end to the book would definetely support Camus' outlook on life.
Beach, I agree with your last paragraph also. I think you and Adam are saying the same thing, in different. I like how you worded your explanation of Camus' personality and I agree that he wouldn't care about what people think of his book. Finally, when I first read that you didn't think the climax was uneventful, I was slightly surprised. However, after you explained that you never expected excitement in the first place, it makes perfect sense. All of us should have had this attitude because of what we knew about Camus before starting the book.
In response to Heather:
ReplyDeleteWhen I first wrote my response, I was thinking that Meursault has had no changes, but after reading yours, I can see where you're coming from. I see what you mean when you talk about Meursault saying that Marie looked beautiful. We're used to hearing Meursault say how he wants her and longs for her, but now he is just referring to how she looks. However, I do not agree with your last paragraph. I have a feeling that Camus will put some kind of twist into this novel. It will help us enjoy the book more.
Joel, in response to your response to Heather:
ReplyDeleteCamus doesn't care if we enjoy the book.
Liz, with your response to Joel-Heather...
ReplyDeleteThat's kind of humorous to me, for some reason. But I don't think that was Joel's point exactly. I think he just meant that if Camus did, in fact, put some kind of twist at the end, it would help the majority of us enjoy the book as a whole. Which I think makes sense. I know I'd like it better if there was something fancy that happens at the end.
In response to Abi's:
ReplyDeleteI think we all would love to see something exciting happen at the end of the book. The only thing is, it's not going to happen. Thats the only reason why I would want to keep reading is to see if anything exciting is going to happen but it's not going to. I think we all know that the ending will be boring and we all will be disappointed
Meursault's tone doesn't change much from Part 1 into Part 2. Camus continued to used the same style of writting all throughout the novel. Meursault's tone however, may be getting confused with what situation he is in. His diction remains the same, readers though are given more insight into Meursault's feelings. This is only due to others prompting him about the death of Maman and the murder that occured out on the beach. Whenever one is posed with a question concerning a serious topic emotions are involved, however Meursault is still very detail orriented and speaks simply. There is no real noticeable change in the tone, the circumstances that Meursault gets himself into has more to do with his thoughts about his life so far. "I thought about it for a minute and said that more then sorry I felt kind of annoyed (Camus 70)." Here is a perfect quote giving an example of Meursault having the same demenor in Part 2 as he did in Part 1.
ReplyDeleteThe novel, The Stranger, is not necassarily coming to a boring end, nor is it lacking an exiting and dramatic climax. Camus' work is written simply with a complex meaning, therefore throughout the entirety of the novel have been mini climaxes in a sense because this reader has come to many realizations about life in general. The Stranger serves a different purpose then a huge build up to a dramatic event, it is what it is for a specific reason. It discusses life in a paradoxical way.
Meursalt has not changed much from Part 1 to Part 2 of the novel. I'm kind of confused as to what exact differences there should be. The tone in Part 1 to Part 2 has not changed in a drastic way. Meursault has seemed to have the same aspect on life and portray the same attitude. Meurault's lack of emotion and feeling have been consistent throughout. His strange way of acting and handeling things have been the same as well. From the time Meursault spent time with Marie and then saw her in prion, I don't think there was a drastic difference in the way Meursalt viwed her. Why would his physical based emotion change just from spending time in prison? I think it would make his drive for her increase! He obviously still wants her. He commented on her appearace right when he saw her visit him in prison. Marie I'm sure misses him and that's why she came to visit him. She probably wants him just as much as he wants her. She might be disapointed in the fact that he killed a man, but she did like him in the first place, and I have no idea why any woman would ever like Meursault.
ReplyDeleteThe way The Stranger has played out has been a bit odd. The way Camus is as a person, and his style of writing should be enough of a hint as to what might happen next. It obviously won't be much. Although, Meursault killing a man was a surprise, the way things have happened afterward have been quite boring. Meursault must have planned the plot like this for a reason. His ueventful plot line and climax reflect who he is as person. His purpose for that must be analyzed and picked apart from the reading. I don't really feel like finishing the rest of the novel because it seems to be kind of a waste of time, but since I know I have to, might as well see what wierdo Camus has to say next!
In response to Adam:
ReplyDeleteI disagree with your view that the novel will only turn worse because there may not be an exiting climax. I believe that you are missing so much of what Camus wants to convery to his readers. The Stranger isn't written for story time, nothing really dramatic or eventful happens in the novel. Well except for the murder...but that in and of itself was fairly uneventfull too. The purpose and ultimate goal in my opinion, is that Camus wished for his absurd views to be shared with others. Either to get reactions, to spark ideas, for people to agree or disagree with him. There is more to Camus' writting then you may see because of the fact that he writes so simply but is definently conveying a more complex thought and logic behind everything.
In response to Nate:
I loved your analogy that you used to further describe how you viewed Meursault and Marie. I found it helpful for you to explain a somewhat confusing topic and break it down like that. I would suggest doing this technique in other papers also, it made your writtings stand out and have an extra edge to them.
In respons to Adam:
ReplyDeleteObviously from my opinion and first response I gave, I fully agree with Adam! His comments were kind of funny to me but totally on point with how I feel as well. When you said that Camus believes life to be meaningless and just a boring cycle, that is exactly what this book is like! Someone please tell me what the point is and can I maybe get something out of it! Also when you said that there will not be anything exciting or eventful coming, I don't think there will be either! Your right, a boring ending would bring more support and logic behind what kind of person Camus really is.
In response to Erin:
ReplyDeleteWow we completely disagreed to agree with Adam! Your logic doesn't really make sense to me. I think your just trying to pretend your getting something from this book, but your really not. Camus' style of writing is so very simple yes, but what exactly is his "more complex thought and logic behind his writng" ??? You never said what he really is trying to convey. Maybe he did want his absurd viwes to be shared with others, but why? This whole thing is confusing me and now just starting to make my brain hurt.
Like I said in my previous post, Camus will write an uneventful and disappointing ending because he wants the reader to think there is no reason for there to be an eventful ending as there is no reason for any event. Every "major" event that has happened: mom's death, sex, murder, jail, he all treats the same as equals on a low level of value. If nothing in the book matters or is exciting why should the ending be? It saddens me to say that I don't really want to finish the book because it will either not be eventful and suck and waste my time or it will be awesome but it won't really matter cuz I already got the point Camus is trying to make so I should just catch up on The Shack instead. Reading Camus is like watching Lady Gaga at the VMA's. Constantly changing, yet still a disaster.
ReplyDeleteThe tone really hasn't changed but rather his situation. His outlook is still apathetic and indifferent except now he sees his outlook through bars. I know people in class got all excited about him showing emotion kind of with how he called Marie beautiful and all except you gotta realize that he is in prison. Everything not colored gray is beautiful in prison. And yeah I bet she looks beautiful dude, prolly the only thing that doesn't hold a y chromosome you've seen in days. I think she thinks it will all be fine and ok and she will get to marry him after she bails him out. Oblivious and nieve. Its innocently sweet, but I feel bad for her. She is just so set on him not realizing that she will just get hurt in the long hall and that he doesn't really care that much in the first place. She should get a clue that this won't turn out well.
I used to really be into this whole existentialist/absurd style of looking at life. I really respect it and can understand that point of view. But now, that was so last week. In a way Camus is right; there is no point to anything and everything is just a means to an end. However, I don't have enough energy to constantly focus on how nothing is worthwhile and it is all just so depressing. Blah blah blah. This may sound bad but if your life sucks so bad that that is all you think about you should do one of three things: see a psychiatrist, do yoga and find peace, or just turn your car on in the garage and get it over with. I'm done with absurdity, my life has a purpose and I'm going to have a heck of a means before my end so take that Mousier Camus.
There was a slight change in the tone from part one and two. Meursault in part one would only analyze things around him and never had any emotion. In part two, Meursault spends a little more time seeing his own emotions. After such a crime, he has to keep reminding himself that his emotions do not matter and there is no need to dwell on them. Eventually, I think, his emotions will become so great that they will not stay suppressed any longer. In jail, he will have so much time to think about himself and less of watching others, so he will show more interest in himself. He notices more about Marie that is not just physical, he sees her to be beautiful instead of just attractive in part 2.
ReplyDeleteThere was a huge climax at the end of part one that all the characters in the novel could see, but in part 2, I think it will end with something only few character can see. Meursault might have an explosion of emotions but only a few can tell the difference, like Marie. The ending climax may not be as exciting as the last one but it would be subtler. I guess I want to keep reading just to find out if there is an exciting end or not. Being as how Camus wrote the book the way he did on purpose, it will leave the reader disappointed and wanting more. I think Camus’ purpose may be to make the reader truly analyze him or herself by the way Meursault may do.
In response to Destiny Forrester:
ReplyDeleteI agree that Meursault has differed in his emotions from part one and two. Meursault before only looked at others around him and thought about the physical aspect of things. While now, he goes a little further and begins to show more emotion. He has more time to just think about himself and his relationships than others around him. He talks more about how Marie is beautiful and not just physically attractive. I think the climax will not be an action adventure type, but maybe something similar to a soap opera and be full of emotions. It would be funny if there were a jailbreak in the end.
Like Alie, I’ve read ahead, so bear with me. In the transition between Parts 1 and 2 of The Stranger, I’ve noticed that Meursault describes people and places in more detail, and starts to show more emotion. His emotions don’t seem as apathetic as they used to, but he stays as headstrong and stubborn as ever. Other than the murder and going to prison, not much has changed in Meursault’s life, but he starts missing certain aspects of his freedom, like being able to move around town, eating at Celeste’s, or being able to go to the beach. Meursault gets used to life in jail after being there a short time, and kind of grows to like it. He doesn’t give too much thought to life outside of prison, and starts looking forward to his routine life in jail.
ReplyDeleteMeursault’s awareness of Marie slightly changes during his time in prison. He remembers certain aspects of her beauty, and how she used to act around him. He still doesn’t know if he loves her, but he still thinks of the possibility of being betrothed to her. Marie seems to want to be with Meursault even more now that he’s in prison. She shows a strong persistence in her character that she hadn’t shown previously. I thought that she would have lost interest and cut off contact with Meursault, but she shows dedication and resolve to her relationship with Meursault.
I don’t think the story has reached an uneventful climax, otherwise I wouldn’t have read ahead. I think that the climax was just a gateway set up by Camus to show more about Meursault and possibly reveal what he hides in his enigmatic character. I think Camus was more focused on describing Meursault than explaining the story. Meursault is a strange person, that’s why readers are interested in him, and that’s what Camus uses to keep people reading. The readers are fascinated by the fact that Meursault seems so careless, and they want to know why. Meursault seems to have hidden motives and emotions behind his lack of care, and that’s what makes him such an interesting character.
In response to Liz Fred:
ReplyDeleteI do think that the ending will be disappointing to most because it is not something most of us would typically read. The unenthusiastic way of presenting details is boring for most. The way Meursault thinks and how he goes through each day makes most think. It’s thought provoking and Camus did that on purpose. It makes the reader think of how Meursault’s tone on life and how the readers life is too. It makes you think, if there is reason to life (which I think there is) or do our emotions on things really matter or change the situation. I don’t think emotions matter in most situations; the facts are what matter. For example, it wouldn’t matter if I thought God existed or could feel his presence; he’s there. That’s it. But something like love would be different because emotions are one on the key elements in such things.
In response to David Beach:
ReplyDeleteI agree with your last paragraph. it's almost as if Camus wrote the book carelessly, but at the same time to get a point across. He doesn't care what the reader thinks, and that's what i think he wants people to understand. He doesn't care if we like the book or not, he wrote it because it's what he wanted to do. It seems like he's making a statement that we should do what we want and not care what other people think, but to me it just seems kind of selfish.
Okay. So personally, I think there was only a slight change in the attitude of Meursault in the transition of part one to part two. But, everyone's response I've read basically says the same thing about Meursault and his emotions and whatever. They've all said something along the lines of Meursault being real cynical and more or less indifferent to anything that happens around him, and that he becomes more accepting of his growing emotions and begins to show them a bit more. I believe that to be true to some degree. I understand the fact that being in prison brings out the innermost feelings of pretty much everyone who's unlucky enough to be stuck there, but I also believe that in Meursault's case, this isn't the time for him in the book to become real emoyional. We may think that this is the turning point of Meursault's character, I do think that there is a different part in the novel that shows legitimate changes in him. This far into the novel, I haven't seen much of anything different about his character. He still looks at everyting the same way, regardless of the fact that he's in prison now.
ReplyDeleteIt kind of upsets me now that the prompt is like, five hundred miles long because Adam said the book isn't going anywhere from here. That's jut his opinion. I actually do think that the book's going to get somewhat more exciting than it is now. I actually really like this book. Normally, I don't like any of the novels that I get stuck reading for school. This is a first to me. I think the beginning of part two is kind of like the beginning of any other book. In any book, the beginning is filled with description of the setting, the characters, and some of the ideas of the plot. My thought is that this book is supposed to be thought of as like, two separate books. The first part of part one was descriptive of setting and everything, and the beginning of part two is desccriptive in the same way. I actually really like it. I have a feeling that we actually haven't hit the climax of the book yet. I think we're really close to it, but that something even more unexpected is going to happen still.
In response to Matt Saenz:
ReplyDeleteI agree with your last paragraph. Part 2 of the story is probably where Camus is trying to get his point across that life is pointless, and that he just doesn't care about what happens or where life takes him. Just like I said in response to Beach, Camus is just trying to show the readers his point of veiw regardless of whether they accept it or not. He doesn't care.
To Adam.
ReplyDeleteBeside the fact that everyone's opinion is going to be different based on whatever it is that they're reading at the time, each author of the selected work has a unique style of writing that sort of mirrors their personality, so to speak. While you think that the book is boring and will only get worse from here, I think that the message that Camus is trying to display is somewhat different to what you're saying. While I do agree with the fact that Camus' outlook on life is different than yours or mine might be, I think the plot behind the book isn't what we're expecting it to be, and that Camus' is trying to show us all something through his work by subtly hinting at small changes in Meurault's behavior. Mybe his outlook is changing, and we're not really prepared for what may happen next.
To Zach.
AHAHAHA. Lady gaga. I actually totally get what you're saying, too. And I agree with it. I like how you said that Meursault's emotions and everything haven't really changed much, but that we're just listening to them through bars basically. I'm right there with you. I don't think that he's really acting different, I think that we just all think he is because there's nothing interesting and exciting for him to decribe. When Marie comes to see him, she's referred to as beautiful. Meursault's said that before in different ways when he said her face looked like a flower. Therefore, he hasn't really changed.
In response to Meghan:
ReplyDeleteI actually agree with you about liking the book, except i don't know why I like it which is the scary thing. Even though I really like it, it still disappoints me at times, just like my relationship with Denver Lutheran for example. But I don't get how you think somehing juicy is still to happen. Like aliens could land in chapter 8 and Camus would still treat it like nothing. Nothing is to be unexpected and nothing is a suprise. It is like living in a world of superheros, nobody is special because everybody is. It is unlike Camus' character to do something exciting.
In response to whoever thinks Meursault is showing emotion,
ReplyDeleteAfter pondering a while I figured out that Meursault never once thinks about what the consequences will be to his actions. He does whatever and never weighs the possibilities. He is a child. If he really had true feelings for Marie he wouldn't have shot the Arab in the first place. There was no reason behind it that was vital at all. A relationship is work and when in one, one has to think how something will affect themselves and their partner. Meursault is a selfish, bumbling idiot who only thinks about himself. Even though he calls Marie beautiful, he always comments on her appearence and never about her personality traits. Girls like to be called smart, funny, and other such things not related to the word "HOT". Get in the game dude and get a clue!
In response to Liz:
ReplyDeleteI think you had a very succinct response, and you were very insightful. I liked the fact that you mentioned Meursault wanting to sqeeze Marie's shoulders. I thought this was weird too, seemingly one of the most random things that Meursault could be wishing to do in jail. That one simple fact I think makes it clear that Meursault *is* adding more details. He does not fulfill his desire for detail in the bustling town, and must turn to things which he may or may not have notices before. Also, the fact that Camus could not care less about us liking the book or enjoying its ending is very true.